Hi-vis to be compulsory from 2013 in France

Hot off the press from MAG:

------------

The French Gov has finally confirmed how it will implement new regulations for bikers regarding reflective clothing and number plates.
...
As of 1st Jan 2013 it will be an offence, punishable through a fine and the loss of points, (in France you lose them, don't gain them) not to ... wear at least 150cm2 of reflective clothing between the waist and the shoulders and not to be using an enlarged number plate.

You may remember that this was first mooted as an accident reduction issue, but most accidents involve 125cc bikes and below, and these are exempt from the new rules.

Riders in France must already use their headlights all the time and carry reflective stickers on their helmets.

You may also remember that the French Government then said the regulations were to ensure other motorists could see if riders were lying in the middle of the road at night...

FFMC's Frederic Jeorge said "It will be considered almost as bad as driving without a helmet, even if you are wearing full leather armour, on a bike with the headlights on and knowing that our helmets already have 4 mandatory reflective stickers... Also, it will NOT include the mopeds and 125cc, where's the logic?"

-----------

It's not clear yet how this affects non-residents. Personally I can't see French bikers taking this one lying down!

 

Did the French bikers organise any sort of protest or petition to oppose this?

If they did, just goes to demonstrate the power of peaceful protest = fek all. Boooooo

 

They can shove that up their arses!
If it gets here I certainly won't wear it...... I reckon us 'bikers' do more then enough to help the blind ignorant spastics that drive on 4 wheels on our roads, surely getting tougher with the car wallers should be an implimentation.....
What's up with the froggies then? They usually create hell......Are they softening up? Surprised it got this far.......
We'll get it next as people in this country won't stick together, if they did then petrol wouldn't be so damn expensive and we wouldn't have any of this legislatioon threatened on us....
Over here it's to much of 'I'm alright Jack so Fuck you' attitude......
So when's the next legislation runs then???? And a damn site more effective and disrupting me thinks, not a damn Sunday.....
Although the last run shit the bed didn't it, nothing thereafter......
As for MAG....well...............................

 

Doesn't make any sense. I'd be more willing to accept (not like) it if this rule was applied across all road users (e.g. cyclists and mopeds) rather then just picking on us Bikers.

 

RR...you forgot pedestrians in there ...why don't we all wear Hi-Viz all the time...I think the legislation actually says reflective strips...although they haven't decided exactly what yet...

http://www.guide2midipyrenees.com/n...ch-road-safety-measures-and-tougher-penalties

 

Cheese eating surrender monkeys.....

 

There's an ePetition for this as well:
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/26931

 

I am sure that there was film footage somewhere of the frogs on their bikes just halting all traffic on a motorway, there were hundreds, if not thousands of them!

 

The e-petition that is doing the rounds has got to be the most counter-productive document possible.
It asks that one EU member state ‘discipline’ another, when the other tries to make legislative changes within its own borders.

So let’s spare 30 seconds to consider the position where one member state can ‘discipline’ another because it doesn’t like its policies. Which EU country would just about every other EU state most like to ‘discipline’? Which EU state is most vocal on wanting to adopt its own policies, not sign joint accords, not join a common currency, and not be dictated to? Therefore if this were possible, who will be the biggest losers, and guess which legislation will be imposed on us?
As for the rest, it is simply vague nonsense that fails to make any substantive point that a member of the general public or a legislator will agree with, or even understand. Regretfully this is the case too often in bikers campaigns.
The various MAG demonstrations are a badly organised complete waste of time. The South East Bikers magazine recently had an excellent article on the last mass protest and how, despite enormous numbers involved, it failed to achieve anything. I was abroad at the time and searched the web to find out what happened. The only mention on the whole of the BBC website was a regional piece from Northamptonshire which seemed to suggest 20 bikers rode down the M1 in some form of protest against something in Europe.
Similarly the MAG protests in London against parking fees are the most embarrassing, counter-productive, gatherings possible (you have to see it to believe it). Yet 40 nutters can have a perfectly peaceful protest next to St Pauls Cathedral and get on the tele every night for two months.
In order to get the public and legislators on our side, bikers need to make rational, logical arguments for their cause. Statements like ‘Hi Viz doesn’t make you more visilble’ or ‘if a driver can’t see a single headlight they won’t see anything’, are simply so stupid that they are more likely to make legislation happen, if only to save those individuals from their own stupidity.
If you really want to ‘experience’ what does and doesn’t work, walk through central London for an hour at 6:00pm at this time of year. The shear number of cycles, bikes and cars will mean you will soon see that in some circumstances a single headlight is as useful as a chocolate teapot. You will also quickly appreciate the difference between a cyclist or biker in black, and one with other visual aids. In London in the last five years attitudes have changed so now at least 50% of cyclists and 30% of bikers wear Hi Viz, or reflective clothing, or at least white helmets or other visual aids. London is simply somewhere the concentration or road users makes it clearer, yet the same reasons apply to any town or urban area.
So when campaigning why not think very carefully about the argument you are putting forward? The French government now have excellent support in the UK, as individuals have written statements (even on this forum) saying they think it is bad that the proposed legislation only applies to some bilkers, not all! Of course any argument that starts with a title “Hi-vis to be compulsory from 2013 in France” encourages counter productive argument as the legislation is not about HiViz as most people recognise it, but reflective material that a great many bikers (including many on this forum) already have.
A great argument against the restrictions on modifying bikes would be the value of the after-market accessory business to the UK economy. The UK Government is committed to avoiding any legislation that increases costs to UK business or damages the economy. But no, the average biker argument is that although we are among the most likely road users to be injured, the most likely to need the emergency services and incur cost on the average tax payer, we should be left to do whatever we want. How many non biker supporters is that going to get?
So if we are going to campaign for something, can we please have a better argument than ‘it looks silly’ or ‘I don’t want to’.

 

I really don't understand how anyone can say hi viz doesn't increase visibility, it does without question!

Personally i dont wear it unless, its pissing it down, my waterproofs are hiviz, or possibly if i were leading/tailmarker on a specific ride in poor weather and were responsible for others seeing me.

As for demos etc, ive always said there is no such thing as a peaceful revolution. OK i'm not advocating a revolution (maybe later ), but FFS a Demo needs some TEETH.

 

Just to clarify I am definitely not saying everyone has to wear HiViz (especially as it works better for us that do all the time others don't!). What I am saying is that if you're going to put an argument forward, either for or against, about HiViz or modifying bikes, then poor arguments can be counter productive.

As for the MAG protest, I don't think the inconvenience or length of protest was the problem, and to cause bigger disruption would be counter-productive. The problem was a) not having a clear message, and b) not publicising what the protest was about. As South East Biker magazine said, how many of the cars caught in the protest had any idea what it was about?

If they had got three bikers who are also lorry drivers to drive trucks at the front of the demo with large banners on with a clear message, then you get a) the mesage, and b) from the bikes following an indication of the strength of feeling. However, you also need to get the press on your side in advance so they take pictures from motorway bridges. If you don't tell thyem, they won't be there. Do something like this, properly organised, and the protest only need last 15 minutes, cause minimal inconvenience to people you need the support of, but you get maximum publicity.

 

I was on the Clackets protest run last year and we were on the M25 for nearly an hour and down top 20 mph in places, slowing down as the police tried to hurry up proceedings......all 3 lanes blocked off to cars etc.....never been so slow and on that road for so long......quite an experience, apart from that, absolutely no damn news coverage or anything......And as for next run....what happened to that..... MAG don't seem to be worthy of the proverbial whatsit......complete wasters!

 

I wear a hi-vis every day, don't care how it looks cos if it saves my noggin even once from an accident, then it'll have been worth it.

 

Good call..
Commuting, was one i ommited re hi viz

 

Didn't realise your BMW Leathers were Hi Viz...

 

They're so damn bright on their own they don't need one!

 

One of the repeating thoughts coming up on this thread is that it has to depend on the situation. To apply a blanket "You must wear hi-viz/dayglow gear at all times" is foolish at best.

To put it as a recommendation (as in 'You Should' in highway code speak) puts the onus on the rider being sensible (e.g. wearing in situations of low visibility) and therefore less of the nanny state mentality. This would surely help to keep the motorcycle community on side.

Ultimately those of us who are sensible will follow common sense and where it when appropriate and then there will be those who don't but they are just a likely to be the people who happily break the speed limits whilst wearing nothing more than a pair of shorts and trainers.

Ireland is also in line to enforce this legislation in 2014 to be bring this a little bit closer to home.